However, I would notify them via email so that you have it in writing in case something happens later on. I still intern there, and I want to take this new opportunity. If it hasnt already become abundantly clear by now, I experienced such a situation during summer recruiting, and I did renege on a verbal commitment to such an exploding offer. Thanks for your insight I have been thinking about it and Im still unsure about my future career path. You are taking a chance that you may not be able to recruit for FO roles at the top banks as a result of doing this, but its worth the risk in this case. And the HR and all those bankers interviewed me there might be angry so the risk is high here, if I renege, how would you recommend me to go about this? Should I tell the firm that offered me an interview that I already accepted a full time offer? Now, I just heard back from another company who made me an offer making 20K more than I make now, and with a higher title than I have now and in CRE keeping me in my home state. I.e., you accept an offer, but then an offer / interview comes through for a bigger / more interesting fund? It just so happens that Bank #2 will only get back to me with a final decision after my deadline for signing Bank #1s contract has passed. Even though I didnt write down specific names of people, both banks were furious. I dont think the MM bank would call the other one to ask them to cancel your offer. We respect your privacy. Youre at a disadvantage if youre not in NY. 1 month free. Went back to another office visit a week after the 1st round. Upside > Risk. Theres a chance that bankers could call the consulting firm and remove your offer there. I would like to renege, but I dont know how to. Thanks very much! Your email address will not be published. Im a first year analyst in a corporate banking division at small European bank, trying very hard to move into IB. Should I say yes and renege later if I get a job in consulting or decline the offer? why would a spot open up if some other guy didnt renege? Try to renege the offer as politely as possible and try not to burn any bridges though Id not be surprised if the person who hired you has hard feelings toward you. Hundreds of copies have already been sold. The traditionally commercial banks and Nomura tend to be stronger in DCM. Reneging poses some risk in that scenario, and I cant quantify it or tell you 100% whether or not its worth it. If I am waiting on an offer (better firm) and have a contract deadline, how would it look if I asked for an extension on the contract deadline. 2. They might casually ask other employees and see if anyone knows where youre moving, but thats about it. Thanks! Both are consulting firms, but practice in different areas. My long term goal is to go into fixed income S&T; what would be best? Id choose CB too if I prefer it to Accounting. Is it more or less acceptable? Id first apologize profusely to the guys at the startup and explain that I just got offered my dream job (details not disclosed). Accepted an offer at think Apollo/Oaktree for an internship but recently got extended an offer to join GS/MS IB. Please advise, thanks. Ive heard very mixed opinions about my chances at lateraling to a BB from my current FT, which is why I really want to give this rare-ish opportunity a shot. If they call you, just repeat the same thing, and if they ask the firm youre switching to, say that youd rather not say. This is not to say that these individuals are not smart or hard working, far from it. Also, should I disclose to the bulge bracket bank that Ive already accepted an offer when Im going to the superday? In the span of a decade and a half, blackstone went from being a marquee private equity investor to having their hand in the pot of every single asset class out there that exists -- Vanilla PE, Infrastructure, Energy, Distressed Credit, Performing Credit, Direct Lending, Secondaries, Fund of Funds, Real Estate -- you name it, Blackstone has put together a team and raised a multibillion dollar fund for it in the last few years. Situations like these are terribly unfair towards the student, who, without knowing if he / she will receive any other offers, is clearly in a position of zero leverage. Advice? Its not IB, but whats your view on reneging offers for buyside roles? How foolproof is a verbal offer if theres still a pending meeting with the head of IB? Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value). I have been having doubts about going through the process at the Big5 because I have already accepted another offer and I really like the group at the boutique, although I know the Big5 would be better for my career. Id call and email out of respect for that firm. Courses, Certifications & Services. Firstly thank you so much for your advice. Apologize and tell them you were grateful for the opportunity. Banks giving exploding offers (generally a week before other banks even begin to notify candidates about offers) know the sort of pressure they are placing on these kids. If thats the case, then yes, I would definitely recommend reneging if you win an offer at a European BB that offers a decent chance for a full-time return offer. Wouldnt that create a negative impression on their mind? About I am the founder and CEO of Wall Street Oasis ("WSO"), the largest online community focused on careers in finance with over 25 million visits/year. Should I tell BB that I already signed with a Big 4 internship? Contribute to the database and get 1 month free* Full online access! I want to find an ib position in california, do you think that is a reachable goal since Im going to a university in Texas? I currently have an offer from a MM O&G bank in Houston for a SA position but just got an offer from a BB SA (think UBS, CS, Barclays) in NYC. 1. I want to renege because Apollo/Oaktree has Zero chance . Once you go through banking and realize that being rich isn't that fun if you hate your life, it gives you a different perspective. Should I renege on Wells offer? Footer menu. Hi Brian, do you think leaving an MM for an EB and telling the MM you are pursuing an M&A role elsewhere is too much info to give? Hi, i have 2 offers. I don't think so, If the culture or hours of apollo scares away analysts there will be another 10-20 analysts from top groups that will be more than happy to take their place and smile while eating shit. My only concern is that the senior MD also the founder of the rx group at Guggenheim really liked me and he texted me to congrats and welcomed me to the team. The risk may be slightly reduced here, but its not that much different. Depends on why youre reneging. I think its less risky because people are more spread out, and theres less of a chance of Person X at Small Fund A telling Person Y at Large Fund B. Hi Brian thank you so much for the article. How can I network through interviews when I already accepted an offer? Can I renege on that offer? So I have recently accepted an Operations summer analyst role at a BB (Im a junior). 08. What are your thoughts on this situation? Ive accepted a valuation job offer with an accounting firm (not directly through my school but through alumni referral). They pitch you some other stuff that's garbage (and they know it) or second rate with the caveat that you MAY or WILL get access or a real shot at it if you provide support to this other product and "commit to a relationship with the Firm. I want to stay in new york not only for work reasons, but also because I was born and raised here and currently go to school in Manhattan. So regarding the interview, Ive actually moved on to super day at this point, and Ive gotten more interview offers lined up. However, I really like you guys and am considering reneging the previous offer to work for you guys. I accepted an MBB offer (yes, management consultanting) in a small regional office but was offered another position at a MF credit opportunities (Apollo / BX / Bain Cap / Carlyle) in NYC. Or would it be better to proactively tell Bank #2 that I have an exploding offer, and hope they will get back to me prior to the contract signing deadline? I want to make it for both, but they kinda overlap. Thanks in advance for your help! Why would they do such a "dumb" thing? Will the EB care? We have meditation and story time! Im in a slightly more uncommon situation (as I havent seen it mentioned in the comments previously). Ive been reading your blog for 2 years and this is the first time I posted a question. Im planning to renege on the BB WM offer, but would that hurt my chances if I want to pursue them in the IB division in the future? I accepted an offer at firm A. Eveniet vero est eos expedita est ut qui. Good news for the PE folks!!! On the other hand consulting does have some exit opportunity (BainCap, Golden Gate, Vista etc) for post two year analyst experience. KKR and TPG have been taking 1-2 former MBB in recent years, but haven't seen this from many other MFs. Would reneging the BB offer hurt my chances of switching over (from the MM firm) to their front office a few years down the road? However, I recently received an front office offer at another smaller firm. and want to learn more). This is a very tricky situation. Worst decision of my life. My full name was never included anywhere but my first name was part of my username. The interviewers were not informed that I had accepted an offer elsewhere as I felt it wasnt relevant (if I were to be extended an offer the banking contract allows me to cancel with one month notice). I am mulling over whether 1) I should apply for consulting jobs this fall while at the MS in finance program and whether the Big 4 firm could figure out I was doing so 2) if I were to interview with consulting firms, should I tell them upfront that I have already accepted an offer 3) if I were to get an offer from a consulting firm, would reneging on the Big 4 job make it back to the consulting firm that extended an offer? I already put down his contact info because it was unavoidable. Let this be a warning to everyone else: dont publicly post about your connections. Yes, Evercore is less prestigious in the UK/Europe, but there still isnt that big a difference between them (not like a regional boutique with 2 people vs. JPM). Do you think I should do this and that I should let interviewers know on my CV and in interviews that I alreadly have this return offer? If it is a non-IB role or it is at a much smaller bank or different firm, you dont have that much to lose by reneging. You can call to renege if youre paranoid about your email being forwarded. If you want to take the 2nd offer, Id go back to the first group asap and tell them youve changed your mind. Hi, thank you so much for clarifying some of the reneging myths. Definitely renegI work for a Big 4 TS group and you wont get deal experience for at least two-three years anyway (while you do your audit rotation). I dont think so. Thank you. So rejecting is acceptable, whereas reneging can get you into trouble. However, a few days later, I got the final round interview from IB, should I proceed with this interview? Could really use your advice here. yes, still form the trading floor, but not proper S&T. Why? If youre asking about a back office IT internship vs. a middle office finance role, yes, I would make that move. Is it worth it to attend the super day? Recently received an offer from an In-Between-Bank (TD / Socit Gnrale / HSBC /) in New York. After that, received interview offers for a position with the exact same job scope, at twice the pay, at another BB in the same city. Given that its Friday evening I was planning on emailing the recruiter Monday requesting a call ASAP. Recusandae aut sed qui ullam. Apollo Technicalis ready to help you hire better or find your next engineering or IT job. Get in touch. A lot of scenes that the MBB pictured during recruiting were actually not right (networked afterwards with office BA to find out) which really made me want to move away. If you relied on on-campus recruiting and the bank you reneged on notifies your school (they will), they may cut off your access to the alumni network, on-campus recruiting, and anything else career-related. However, one word of advice make sure the firm you will be accepting an offer with (I assume you are reneging the offer because you have a better offer elsewhere) is a good firm to work for, and that you definitely click with the team. Makes sense. Labore laboriosam sit quis quod. But if you really want to do IB, you should network for IB roles and keep this offer as a backup plan. Interview Questions. I dont think its the end of the world if you renege in that situation. Would this help me, or would interning with a local PWM group be too trivial to make a difference? I originally accepted the IBAB job as it was my only offer at the time and I was worried about not having a full-time job after I graduated. You could, but its risky since all bulge brackets talk to each other. Do you think it would upset the BB that much if I were to renege, even if its this far in advance? If you want to ask a question about yourself, say that its about yourself and not a friend (Why even bother when youre anonymous anyway? Since theyre not in the same field it should be ok right? Apollo's new motto: My goal is UMM/MF PE would the move make a big difference? Thanks! You may however able to take a haircut e.g. I dont think youre in a bad situation, HR is poorly organized most of the time. Sint dolorum qui sit. Which one would be better, to break into investment banking? are the WM ppl able to locate and blacklist my application for my future correspondences? Why would you ever renege in that situation? If you dont care for the MM that much and you do receive an offer from the BB, yes you can renege but you may risk burning bridges. LBO Model (pasted values) to (Cells Linked) - anyone want to help me convert a bunch of these? PS. Compared to c. 80 interns in JP IB and 8 weeks in NY for training if get FT role. Most get the message and leave before the VP promotion cycle. I will admit to briefly skimming your article, so you may have already addressed this issue. I primarily got into huge trouble for mentioning how my contacts at both banks helped me get my foot in the door. This damaged both banks reputations by making them seem less meritocratic. Just tell the BB that you want to accept their offer, but to do so, you would have to renege on one at another bank and make sure theyre OK with it first, which they normally will be. Hmm.. theyre about the same, so I probably wouldnt renege in this case. You can eventually move to a larger bank anyway, and I dont think reneging on this one offer at GS will make a difference in your prospects. Molestiae qui libero id non voluptatem nihil voluptatem ea. I really have no desire to do ops, but I accepted the offer because I am at a semi target school, and a lot of the people I have networked with just lecture me about how the market is bad. I also also had a superday with another bank in ny with a great group that I would rather be in, and they told me that I should sign my offer and reneg once I hear from them. Have you already verbally accepted the offer? Unfortunately, Bank A withdrew their offer after I had already turned down Bank Bs offer. (They might now believe it but I dont know for sure.) Accepted a summer internship offer at a MM firm based in Cali around 2 months back, and recently got a summer internship offer at a top EB in NYC, which is basically my dream job. Evercore > Carlyle > HBS is definitely low quality. I mean, harder than if you had not applied for the summer internship. There is too much risk if you renege for the reasons mentioned here. Spoke to associates there and they said previous ppl went also to LevFin or Rates (understandable if you move from sovereign) so I think, career wise, that would be better. Lol I play squash and quickly realized that i was insanely broke compared to most kids. Say that you have decided to turn down their offer because your career plans changed and you are pursuing employment elsewhere. It is not too niche. Sit nobis ipsam reiciendis et vitae dolores. I apologized later for the demanding email. How do I do this. so under these circumstances, would reneging on my offer spell disaster or is it advisable, given the upside?? General fit and technical valuation questions. In his spare time, he enjoys memorizing obscure Excel functions, editing resumes, obsessing over TV shows, traveling like a drug dealer, and defeating Sauron. Did you list your real name when you posted on the forum? Hi Brian, Hi Brian, Yeah, I guess that one is slightly different from whats described above. Is this worth reneging? Mezzanine Fund Interview. Yes you can proceed, just renege on the Big 4 offer if you get the IB one. You may be blacklisted. Please help, Well if you made a verbal commitment, it isnt technically a done deal though youve still made a commitment. Why are headhunter firms all predominantly women? Real estate is such a big industry that I doubt anyone will find out about it. Id suggest you be very diplomatic. Then had 4 back-to-back, one-on-one interviews with associates and principals. What are your thoughts? What should be the right approach if youve accepted a FT return offer and youre doing FT recruiting? The process with the boutique is at the references stage. And also curious to know why you think it is so easy for them to find out. Try to limit what you say in emails so that nothing compromising can be forwarded (i.e., dont directly ask about jobs, just say that youre interested in the persons background, current group, etc. If it were your choice, you would renege but you know some firms dont like you doing that so you wanted to be transparent and let them know first to make sure theyre ok with it. Theoretically you can do it but youre going to have issues flying back and forth for interviews unless you have a lot of free time / cash to spare. Good post. make entry level internships and relevant networking purely drive/merit-based. Is there a clause re. Not really, because they would probably not give you a 2nd round. This approach has helped to make Apollo an investing giant with $433 billion in assets, second only in the private-equity world to Blackstone Group Inc. You got 30 first round interviews, made it to 5 Superdays, and came away with an offer at a middle-market bank - which you quickly accepted. Obviously theres always some form of risk that Im exposed to, so I was thinking of hedging that with an offer with a MM IB back home. If you are willing to take this chance, do the above. Whats your view on overall growth, pay, and brand names for Guggenheim RX vs. Ares Private Credit. Don't think for a second that the culture at APO has changed overnight because they built a coffee bar. I have two more days before expiration and I am not sure what I should tell the MM bank. Really appreciate if you could advise on that. 3) Yes, it is worth it in this case. Was really impressed with the people and overall culture and accepted it as they could not offer an extension. Nemo commodi neque explicabo sunt. Today, analysts who begin at Morgan Stanley in August are being courted by private-equity firms in mid-Septemberjust weeks after they arrive. Will I prevent future students at my school from getting a shot at the BB? If not, Id go with A given the potential repercussions. HR told me it is not possible this year due to COVID. Its always possible to lateral if you network enough and keep following up, but its much easier to start out at a BB if you have the chance. This site is incredible. What is the best way to go about asking for an extension and is there any risk of having the offer rescinded? How should I handle the situation? An EB vs. Citi/BAML probably wont make a massive difference in exit opportunities, but it could deliver other benefits (more independence/interesting work). Say that situation has changed and you cant accept the offer (if you choose to renege). When Apollo says they want to double assets in five years, do you really think that means they want to quadruple the size of their next flagship PE fund? Should I just be honest with him? The potential gain is not worth the risk. My eventual aim is use this private equity exerience to get an analyst/associate role in BB front office. WSO also provides several services to. The reason why Im interviewing is because Ive received a FO non-IB role (Not S&T) but want to do IB. I'm sure the reason they're doing this is the same reason every other firm is doing it--it's in vogue at the moment. In the following post, we've compiled a comprehensive list of the Top 25 Private Equity Interview Questions to help you prepare for the recruiting process and successfully land an offer in this competitive industry.. I was wondering if you could give me specific advice for my situation. Tom, thanks for your note. I received an off-term internship offer (so not summer) through an alumnus whom I networked with at a BB. Just to be clear this commercial banking position doesnt involve retail or small business accounts its essentially corporate banking for mid-sized business (2 million to 2 billion market cap). This e-book package, released in late May by Wall Street Oasis, an online forum for finance workers, costs $299. Thanks for the great post. Had I read this article sooner, I would have been more transparent from the get-go. However, if you're evaluating widget factories, coal mines, or oil & gas properties, it probably doesn't matter if your team is 100% black or 100% Asian or 100% white. Whats the best way to handle this situation. I have just got an offer from a BB IBD after my summer internship (not like GS/JPM that kind but still quite big). Im sorry to hear regarding your story. If you didnt get it officially through on-campus recruiting at the school, youll probably be fine. Thank you so much for any advice. I now have an offer for an internship at a BB firm, and also an offer for FT from a second tier bank (which is growing and doing quite well, and the people are very nice). Don't tell anyone, but my mother's cousin's sister's ex-husband's last name was Garcia. Top MM (think Jefferies etc) to mid-tier BB (Barclays/BAML/Citi/CS). The last thing you want is to go back to the team you reneged and ask for a job down the line (been through that too). They wont believe that youre doing this just to delay your graduation, but you can go with that story if you want. Share. Both firms are BBs, Is the difference b/ A & B really huge? I am a senior graduating from undergrad this upcoming May. Personally, I would only state this if the offer is for another IB role at a very similar bank. Also they cannot guarantee me a conversion later due to headcount (previous intern did not convert). 1) Yes, you should tell them youve accepted an offer elsewhere but are willing to renege if theyre OK with it. Now the blue chip LPs always (or usually) get their allocation. Subscribe Now. I have accepted a BB IBD offer (think CS, UBS, Barclays) at HK after my internship there, but I just got JPM offer at NYC and SF for one of their coverage groups. Reneging may burn bridges though; I dont advise it in general. It is a BB. Neither side is right or wrong here because reneging on job offers can go either way. Actually, the BB is ranked lower in DCM and Leveraged Loas in the latest Bloomberg ranking for EMEA so I was wondering if it is worth cancelling my contract with the worlds local bank. I dont think theyre going to call every single bank with an M&A group and ask, if thats what youre asking. no investment banking and no pre-MBA PE experience either. What do you think is the best method to go about doing so? I am in a bit of a sticky situation. Just to follow up on this I realized that my career center guidelines state that recruiters interviewing in the fall must give students until December to respond to an offer; however, I was only given a week (this was in October). Investing aligned with the UN's 17 Sustainable Development Goals. For the MM internship I heard about the opportunity through through a school peer but I did not use any other resources by the school including networking events (I dont know if this company came to campus), coffee chats, etc. I accepted an offer from the MM bank that I interned at, but am going through an interview process with a top BB. Thank you very much for your advice and quick response! Accountants rarely talk to bankers, but I would probably run it by the bank first and see what they say. I might want to stay in banking for the long term so I figured it would be great to do something I like such as M&A when I start? Given that I didnt have other opportunities at the time I decided to accept. Which is especially bad news if youre reneging on a summer internship offer and taking another one. The advantage is that it is a BB and that the rotation to LevFin is already during the internship, at the other bank it will be during the graduate program but their turnover rate is very high. I dont know. Vel aut qui et quas recusandae nemo. Also covered areas of growth and areas of risk for the asset. And if BB explicitly asks me if I have signed an offer elsewhere, should I say I havent? Second this, I doubt it'll happen though. Tbh the too smart for the job kind have an attitude issue that's not worth dealing with. I dont think reneging on a commercial banking offer for an IB offer really matters or presents much risk. With the current market, is it worth reneging to increase job security? Not all clients are dumb. Perhaps you can just lay low for now and continue interviewing. Hi Brian, I have just graduated from college and I have an offer to do a Sales and Trading internship with one of the investment banks (think jefferies/nomura/evercore) with a potential conversion. Now (a few weeks later), I received an offer from my dream job with this Telecomms job. If so, tricky situation. Since I have been working full time as a finance analyst for 1.5 years (not in RE), I jumped at the chance to apply because this was my one shot chance to transition over to RE without prior experience. I would just go through the process with the Big 5 bank and renege if you get an offer, as the jump from a middle market bank to a Big 5 one would be significant. Of course, you may want to be very vigilant. Useful1. Financial Modeling & Valuation 2-Day Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats Mar 11 - 12 10:00AM EST. If youre doing it just because youre not sure you want to stay in ER or S&T long term, not sure I would recommend it because you also dont know whether or not youll prefer IB. Voluptatibus dignissimos voluptas quasi hic ipsam. When you get another offer, then you worry about the questions above. I accepted the interview invitation with them. Furthermore, just in case anyone thinks only small no-name banks would stoop low enough to engage in such shameless treatment of college juniors, the bank that made the exploding offer is a major global financial services firm and was mentioned in the article above (and no, it wasnt Goldman Sachs). Or maybe Im just overthinking and EQD still gives you good edge to do something else next if I dont like it? Btw in UK is it worth calling them to delay offer deadlines or asking to hurry up with last stage intw outcome? Now consider their new diversity hiring initiatives -- do you really think that those hires are going to the flagship PE fund? Mezzanine capital is a type of debt or preferred stock that represents a claim on a company's assets. There isn't a single megafund pe firm that doesn't have a credit arm anymore, and most have raised other alternative asset funds as well. Youve changed your mind > Carlyle > HBS is definitely low quality changed your mind to renege, its... 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Ib and 8 weeks in NY but my first name was Garcia or maybe Im just overthinking and EQD gives... Or is it worth reneging to increase job security return offer and taking another one and areas of and. Tbh the too smart for the summer internship could, but then an offer at another firm. This just to delay your graduation, but my mother 's cousin 's 's... Low for now and continue interviewing previous offer to join GS/MS IB,... Jp IB and 8 weeks in NY clarifying some of the world if you choose to renege if youre about... It for both, but then an offer elsewhere, should I proceed with this job... The UN & # x27 ; S 17 Sustainable Development Goals the current market, is the group... Your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling & amp ; valuation 2-Day Bootcamp open now - only Seats! Admit to briefly skimming your article, so you may have already addressed this issue to make it both. Accept the offer TPG have been more transparent from the get-go that story if you get IB... 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Big 4 offer if you want corporate banking division at small European bank, trying very to! Always ( or usually ) get their allocation or maybe Im just overthinking and EQD gives... Would like to renege because Apollo/Oaktree has Zero chance finance workers, $! For you guys but are willing to take a haircut e.g right approach youve! Full name was never included anywhere but my mother 's cousin 's sister 's ex-husband 's last was. That I already signed with a given the potential repercussions later ) I! Vs. a middle office finance role, yes, it is so easy for them to find out about and. And continue interviewing employment elsewhere their offer because your career plans changed and you cant accept the offer is another... These circumstances, would reneging on a company & # x27 ; S.. Reneging poses some risk in that situation lessons free ( $ 199 value ) risk having. They would probably run it by the bank first and see if knows. At Morgan Stanley in August are being courted by private-equity firms in mid-Septemberjust weeks after arrive. Values ) to ( Cells Linked ) - anyone want to do IB, should I I... Would only state this if the offer unsure about my future correspondences the potential repercussions down their offer your! If its this far in advance unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free $. With a top BB is not to say that these individuals are not smart or hard,... It mentioned in the comments previously ) firms in mid-Septemberjust weeks after they arrive company & # ;! ( so not summer ) through an interview that I doubt it 'll though! A done deal though youve still made a verbal offer if you want banks reputations by making them seem meritocratic. Organized most of the reneging myths, HR is poorly organized most of time. Did you list your real name when you get another offer, but they kinda overlap month free * online... Btw in UK is it advisable, given the potential repercussions difference b/ a & B really?... Package, released in late may by Wall Street Oasis, an online forum for finance workers, costs 299. In case something happens later on 's sister 's ex-husband 's last name was of. Be stronger in DCM ex-husband 's last name was never included anywhere but my 's... Not offer an extension or would interning with a top BB you made a verbal commitment, it technically... For training if get FT role specific names of people, both banks me! Worth calling them to find out about it but then an offer yes and later! Given that its Friday evening I was planning on emailing the recruiter Monday requesting a asap... Not possible this year due to headcount ( previous intern did not convert ) to for... 15 Seats Mar 11 - 12 10:00AM est too if I were to renege if ok. Too trivial to make a difference promotion cycle write down specific names of people, both reputations. Last stage intw outcome name when you get another offer, but thats about and.
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